Mundell rejects idea an SNP win will strengthen FM’s indyref mandate

A Conservatives led government will refuse to accept the SNP has strengthened its mandate to hold a second independence referendum even if Nicola Sturgeon’s party wins more Westminster seats than her Unionist rivals in June’s general election.

Speaking on the BBC, Conservative MP David Mundell rejected the idea that there could be an explicit Scottish result.  The Secretary of State for Scotland insisted that the election was a UK wide contest and that there would be no acknowledgement of an SNP win.

Asked by BBC Scotland reporter Glenn Campbell if an SNP win would strengthen the First Minister’s indyref mandate, Mundell replied: “This is a UK wide election.  The decision of the people of Scotland in September 2014 was to remain part of the United Kingdom and therefore elections for the UK parliament are across the whole of the United Kingdom.”

The comments from the senior Conservative MP appear to be at odds with the campaign being run by the leader of the Conservatives in Scotland.  Ruth Davidson is already on record as saying the snap election is an opportunity to send a message to the SNP on the issue of another independence referendum.

Davidson said: “If you do believe in tactical voting and you have a principled belief in keeping the United Kingdom together and respecting the decision that we made in 2014, actually your vote is for the Scottish Conservatives.

“You have a Labour leader in Jeremy Corbyn who says he would be happy to let another referendum happen, the Lib Dems just aren’t strong enough.

“It is very much a case of, if you’re not supporting the SNP and you want somebody to stop their drive to break up Scotland then the Scottish Conservatives are your best bet.”

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has already insisted that a win for the SNP will enhance her existing indyref mandate.  Speaking in London the day after the Prime Minister announced the snap election, Nicola Sturgeon said: “if the SNP wins this election in Scotland and the Tories don’t, then Theresa May’s attempt to block our mandate to give the people of Scotland a choice over their own future when the time is right will crumble to dust.”

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30 thoughts on “Mundell rejects idea an SNP win will strengthen FM’s indyref mandate

  1. Charles P. Kearney

    We were told that our 62% Vote to Remain in the EU had no meaning whatsoever since it was a ‘United Kingdom’ Referendum and now we are told Scotland returning more SNP and other Independence Voting Parties at this General Election will not matter either!

    Perhaps someone could enlighten me then as to what is the point of remaining in this ‘Union of Equals?’

    Scotland appears to be nothing but the sound of one hand clapping! And anyone Voting to remain in the Union are simply not Scots at all!

  2. bringiton

    The Con party where we are one nation,or a family of nations depending on who they are trying to con at any particular time.
    One thing that Scots should have learned about the con artists over the last few years is that lying comes naturally to them and that they cannot be trusted on anything.

  3. jake

    Somebody needs to remind him he is the Secretary of State FOR Scotland and that as such he is the voice of Scotland in cabinet, not the voice of cabinet in Scotland. Odious little man.

  4. Abulhaq

    May we soon be throwing these pathetic colonial apologists into the dustbin of history. Why do we tolerate these ridiculous, provincial-minded political dinosaurs?

  5. IndyHope

    Surely the answer is that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence, and a majority of MPs elected on such a mandate will result in a UKexit by Scotland. Since 1974, that has been the position. Put it in the Manifesto. Acceptable under international law, and we have the example of Eire too

  6. Kathleen Choucha

    Their agenda is clear. Scotland is to be wiped out as a nation in it’s own right. This is only the start. The SNP had better stop pussy-footing around before all is lost.

  7. 100%YES

    Are the Scottish people pawns in a political game, The SNP are supposed to be a party for Independence not government, Why isn’t the SNP putting in their Westminster manifesto (2017) a vote for us is a vote for Independence. Their Prime Minster has just stated in the Scotsman that the Westminster election will be about Independence, why aren’t we using this vote about achieving Independence, because our Ruler and Master is never going to give a vote to the Scottish people or recognize a vote for independence. Billy no mates, doesn’t believe in democracy, and as for Jeremy Corbyn saying that he wouldn’t work with the SNP cos they aren’t a progressive party, but I bet he would work with any terrorist group. It will be very interesting to find out what the first minister states about progressing the matter of a referendum when she address the Scottish parliament next week. As a nation it’s time to move on.

  8. Sandy

    Error in the fourth paragraph where you describe Fluffy as ‘senior’. He’s the tea boy, nothing more.

  9. Robert Graham

    Even Maggie stated all it would take would be a majority of SNP MPs to declair Independence , we are all getting pretty fed up having a majority vote and nothing happens .
    As for the tories they will never grant independence so we need to take it .
    The BBC need to be called out by the SNP we know they are liars stop the pretence .

  10. Big Jock

    How did we get to a point in our lives. Where 1 MP tries to dictate terms to 56 MP’s in Scotland, and talks about mandates! Why are we allowing this to go on. It’s absolutely mental!

  11. Big Jock

    100% I agree.

    If you had asked the SNP 20 years ago what would they do if they had 56 MP’s. They would have answered, resign and stand for the independent Scottish parliament. The SNP are the party of government but in an independent Scotland not continuous devolution.

    It’s untenable and unsustainable to sit in Westminster after you have won by a landslide. Sure this election has interrupted the planned indy ref 2 timetable. So you rip up the plans and take on the new circumstances. You don’t wait for something to happen you make it happen.

    Nothing changed when the 56 were elected. WM ignore them the same way they did the feeble 50. Why are we still in Westminster we are the party of independence lets do what it says on the tin.

  12. Big Jock

    This is how you do it!

    In the 1918 general election Irish voters showed their disapproval of British policy by giving Sinn Féin 70% (73 seats out of 105,) of Irish seats, 25 of these uncontested. Sinn Féin won 91% of the seats outside of Ulster on 46.9% of votes cast, but was in a minority in Ulster, where unionists were in a majority. Sinn Féin pledged not to sit in the UK Parliament at Westminster, but rather to set up an Irish Parliament. This parliament, known as the First Dáil, and its ministry, called the Aireacht, consisting only of Sinn Féin members, met at the Mansion House on 21 January 1919. The Dáil reaffirmed the 1916 Proclamation with the Declaration of Independence, and issued a Message to the Free Nations of the World

    1. Heidstaethefire

      The situation is still same in essence. We have to carry majority of the population. What if we declare that a majority of MPs is enough, but we have less than half the electorate behind us?

  13. manandboy

    “It’s hard to see a silver lining for a party going into a general election with a 20-point deficit,” said Anthony Wells, associate director of political research at YouGov. “They’re going to suffer very badly, and there’s no way of polishing it up and seeing a bright side.”

    What applies to Labour in England, must apply to the Ruth Davidson Party in Scotland.

  14. Big Jock

    The Tories in Scotland see 2 seats out of 59 as a victory. That’s the state we are in, and the media will willingly play this game of charades. Murray is toast so that’s a win for SNP as is Carmichael. So that leaves Mundell and Roxburgh. If things go well and we know the Greens are not standing in Dumfries then Mundell could go and there could be one non nationalist MP in Scotland. How is this sustainable!

  15. Brian Powell

    This kind of ‘statement’ shows the UK is finished.
    The reality that hit the Tory UK ‘Government’ when it tried to tell the EU what would happen with Brexit showed the total failure of the Brit political class.
    Mundel’s witless wittering is the same.

    1. Heidstaethefire

      You’re dead right. The U.K. as a polity doesn’t exist. We’re just working towards the politics Catching up.

  16. Del

    It’s blindingly obvious. No matter what the election results north of the border, the Conservatives will deny that Scotland has any right at all towards independence. There’s no point in the SNP/Holyrood asking Westminster politely.

  17. Big Jock

    Worth repeating what I posted on Bella as well about what is happening to the SNP.

    The SNP with it’s recent obsession with referendums, has forgotten that the power rests with the people who elect the MP’s, and therefore the MP’s. There is not one route to independence ,there are several. Winning an election is the most obvious and democratic. Why can’t the SNP see that, and be bold enough to take it. Forget endless mandates and devolution governments, the SNP exist for independence.

    We are actually back to the ship of Theseus I am afraid :” The ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus’s paradox, is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object.

    Are the SNP losing their original purpose?

    1. Abulhaq

      The SNP often acts like a ‘soft’ party. It appears now to be ducking and diving about EU membership. The ability to shoot ourselves in the foot just before the moment of victory is a tragi-comic characteristic of so much of our history. I wonder sometimes if there is a pathological fear of winning.
      Many want independence and will have it by hook or by crook. The SNP needs to take note.

  18. Big Jock

    This I suspect is the SNP’s moment .Don’t underestimate what can happen to a party if it gets too comfortable in government. Even the idea of waiting for WM to negotiate Brexit before going for indy ref 2 ,would have been unthinkable before June 2016 in these circumstances.

    We got angry for a few weeks over the EU. Then we compromised by offering single market and free movement. Then we compromised by allowing the chumps in the Tory party to negotiate a deal before going to the people. Then we compromise on the date of indy ref 2 saying it’s flexible.

    Everything the SNP has done since June 16 has weakened it’s position. We are giving and giving and the Tories are laughing at us. At this rate we will let them wait until 2022 before agreeing a referendum. By that time the SNP might have lost more seats at Holyrood and certainly have lost seats in June this year.

    So do you go for independence when your party is at it’s strongest ,or do you wait for a favorable wind that never seems to come.

    Brexit is a reality it’s happening that’s the certainty. Scotland didn’t vote for it. We don’t need to be polite and see how shit the deal is and then vote. We know it’s shit because, we are doing something we never wanted to do in the first place.

    2 years from now Scotland could be on it’s knees.


      Big Jock, I cannot deny a lot of your post, but consider who has the upper hand and has held this control from inception I believe under all the odds against those whom we voted for that they have and are doing all that is possible for the good of Scotland with the whole UK attacking us from many sources.It’s so easy to find faults when the full facts are not known.

  19. manandboy

    I’m sure that many, if not most, Yes voters across Scotland are impatient for Independence. But impatience easily leads to frustration which then breaks out into dissatisfaction and criticism and general fault finding, and then into demands for action – before the time is right. Such untimely action, under impatient pressure, invariably leads to failure, followed by recriminations and bitter regret.
    The passion of a minority is not enough to secure a winning majority.

    The consequences of the Brexit vote are not yet visible to enough No voters to persuade them to change to Yes. So far, it has mostly been paper talk, with Brexit negotiations not even begun yet, and in fact the mainstream media are still spreading the lie that Britain is doing very well and that Brexit remains a wonderful opportunity for the UK. The brainwashed lap up these lies with little likelihood of a change of mind – until the truth of Brexit becomes widespread and undeniable. But meanwhile, British State Propaganda will be operating flat out with fake news to blind the electorate to the truth of Brexit.

    The time to make the decisive move toward Independence has not yet come.

    To strike too soon under the impulse of impatience would be fatal to Scotland’s Independence, hence the need for self-discipline and self-control before we achieve self-determination.

    No one ever said this would be easy.


      Manandboy, Couldn’t better your post all so simply true and cannot be denied by any reasonable minded person.

  20. Big Jock

    I get the gradulist argument. However it’s a very weak argument, unless you think the SNP are going to win less than 30 seats on an independence ticket.

    It’s actually easier to win an election than win a referendum for the SNP. We are probably going to lose seats without independence in the manifesto anyway. So why not lose some seats but win independence. I think the SNP might live to regret looking a gift horse in the mouth.

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