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In defence of the sweary people – Towards Indyref2…

In defence of the sweary people

It seems that Ross Greer’s pathetic need for attention has become a pathological craving. There is no reason for his demented rant other than to feed this nonentity’s strutting self-importance.
While his article is certainly not short of emotive rhetoric and self-righteous hysteria, what is conspicuous by its complete absence is any evidence of the issue that has supposedly prompted this theatrical exhibition of pompous outrage. Like the British nationalist propagandists he emulates, Greer seems unable to point to a single instance of the “bile” that has so provoked his sanctimonious ire.

Which is not to say that there are no tasteless or unacceptable comments made on social media. So what! That is precisely where such comments belong. And to imply that such outbursts are exclusive or particular to any group is to demonstrate a level ignorance or degree of prejudice that should be cause for silent shame rather than public flaunting.

If we wish to understand Greer’s motives in seeking to embarrass the Yes movement in this way then we need only consider the purpose of the ‘cybernat abuse’ propaganda he parrots. It’s aim is to close down discussion. To limit and control the constitutional debate. To induce that most insidious form of censorship, self-censorship. And to provide a smokescreen behind which British nationalists can hide when their misrepresentations, distortions, smears and downright lies are challenged.

Greer represents a particular clique within the Yes movement which similarly wants to ‘own’ the constitutional debate. He typifies the tick-box technocrats, righteous radicals and coffee shop commies who have latched onto the independence campaign as a vehicle for their narrow political agendas.

It is in the nature of such elitist factions that they seek to exclude in order to control. In order to claim the status of the ‘one true voice’ of the cause, they must demean, denigrate and stifle other voices in precisely the same way as those whose ambition is to kill the independence movement stone dead.

Democracy is legitimate and effective only to the extent that it is inclusive. Within the constraints defined by law, it is better that people engage with politics in whatever way they can, using whatever language they have at their disposal, than that they succumb to apathy and alienation. Those who seek to turn the Yes movement into some kind of private club for educated and erudite leftists are vastly more detrimental to our democratic cause than the odd semi-literate keyboard warrior.

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33 thoughts on “In defence of the sweary people

  1. PJ

    Last paragraph really resonated.
    Happened to come across some ‘nuggets’ of wisdom by Pat Kane yesterday on Twitter..’the Marxist-urbanist in me’ blah blah…jargon, irony, pomposity, pointlessness all in one tweet.
    Tried screaming into a pillow but still no relief.

    1. C.G

      Typical of us isn’t it? The prize is within reach, and what are we doing? Firing fucks into each other fragmenting squabbling and attacking each other… This does Fuck all good for the cause.

      1. PJ

        Or another way too look at is that – up to a point – some of this venting and infighting is necessary to clear some air and to flush out the career-seeking opportunists…as well as potential agent provocateurs online.
        There is so much at stake here. They want to take the prize away. I would go with the older wiser heads rather than the student journalists and politicians who have never experienced the adversity that the former have. They won’t be around for the long haul.

        1. Hugh Wallace

          I was having similar thoughts myself the other day. I hope that some of the people who are in the independence movement & politics primarily for their own advancement get exposed so that the rest of us can clearly see them for what they are.

      2. Mike

        We are not infighting, we are being told we are infighting. There is a world of difference. We can add to the too wee, too poor, to stupid a new tautology too infighty. It is like when the tories decided to tell everyone that Jeremy Corbyn was unelectable, it is not up to them. (Even though I am not sure what it is about Corbyn’s hard brexit that so appeals to labour voters). A few yes supporting attention seeking nonentities screaming stop fighting when nobody is fighting just makes them feel important. What is more, the louder they squeal the more attention they get from the media, unionist and I am ashamed to say nationalist media. Everyone else can see the damage that these screamy halfwits are doing to the movement for their own promotion. Ignore them and they will go away.

  2. Bugger (le Panda)

    Pretty much a nuclear depth charge into the self righteous underwater force.

    Could we be seeing the Scottish equivalent of the Labour Lavender Hill mob?

    The Self Righteous Indie Brothers and Sisters

  3. Clapper57

    His article has offered fuel to the very people who deny him what he supposedly wants for Scotland….that is…..Independence….and so far he has received support and praise from two notorious nay sayers i.e. Ruth Davidson and Duncan Hothersall in respect to his article….so…. well done to him for reaching his target audience.

    One has to wonder the motivation behind the constant onslaught towards certain ‘yes’ supporters and bloggers . The result of the onslaughts is that ammunition is provided to those who vehemently oppose independence and are desperate to shut down all opposing voices that expose the hypocrisy , lies and propaganda as spouted by these unionist supporters i.e. politicians ,individuals and MSM.

    If the ‘elite’ want to restrict and deny a platform to ‘ordinary’ people then it says much about their true socialist beliefs…..because to suppress people’s right to express their opinion and be heard is a road which will lead to apathy, despondency and ultimately will deny us any chance of achieving independence.

    The succession of voices who are lining up to dictate how they want the progression of the yes movement to evolve and chastising any who they see as subversive to the ’cause’ is becoming the real risk element to the Indy movement. I fear they, the ‘elite’ sites, are the ones who are at risk of losing the support of the grass roots of the Yes movement through their incessant non constructive criticism , whining and negative rhetoric.

    There is , or should be , room for all voices and opinions on the road to achieving independence and it will only be achieved via a majority of support but if certain factions are determined to exclude those whose methods they disagree with then it will be ….divided we fall…..and if they continue to do this then they risk raising doubt not just among those people who are currently ‘no’s’ but god forbid some already converted to ‘yes’.

    I sincerely hope that Mr Greer and others like him can take a step back to consider that their own personal perspective is but a small part of a much greater movement and that there is room for everyone and that no one individual or groups of individuals should dictate and control what is ultimately a movement for the people who through self expression seek self determination of their own country.

  4. Margaret Eleftheriou

    A lifelong Labour supporter, I joined the Scottish Green Party in the aftermath of the 2014 Referendum (having decided to vote YES almost literally at the last moment).
    Since then I have supported financially some of those same bloggers so vilified by Mr Greer, as they each contribute something quite specific to the ongoing debate. This blog is one of my must-reads, as is Wings-over-Scotland.
    I am now going to cancel my membership of the Scottish Greens, as I see the damage done by the uncontrolled youngster, Mr Greer, to the cause of Scottish independence. And it really sticks in my elderly throat to be allied to someone who is lauded by Ruth Davidson and other diehard Tories.

    1. Dianne Smart

      Well said. I keep seeing these long articles talking about in fighting within the Indy movement, but I do not see in fighting except amongst the ones making a big deal about it. If I disagree with what someone has written or tweeted I can make my mind up about whether I ignore it or argue against it, this is not in fighting, it’s called having an opinion. If people are derogatory towards me because of my opinion I will reply with reasoning for the opinion and move on. Perhaps these people should do the same. The yes movement are more than one voice and we all have a different view even if we want the same outcome of an independent country. Let’s agree to disagree and get this done. ASAP

  5. Nod Bruce

    Is this not simply how imperialism works? Define an “official” language, as in India, then castigate / ignore any who speak otherwise as inferior?

    I suspect that, as an imperial administrative centre, Edinburgh’s culture incorporated this attitude long ago, albeit at the point of the Dragoons’ guns!

  6. scrandoonyeah

    ‘educated and erudite leftists’………more like an embryonic fascist and what is so scary, still developing.

  7. MacGillieleabhar

    As an old uneducated and semi literate “Key Board” warrior all I can add is that now is a better time to flush them out rather than in the lead up to something much more important.
    Mr. Greer is however entitled to his opinions such as they are but remember the old gaelic saying,
    “The shallower the water the louder the burn.”

  8. Jim O'Rourke

    Greer. The tail trying very hard to wag the dug. Still no clue what his motivation is for jumping on this suspicious looking bandwagon.

  9. Aikenheed

    If you don’t identify yourself as the elite how can you get first dibs at the dachas government limos and drive up the reserved middle lane in the new socialist Republic they are hoping for?

  10. Jas

    What this reminds me of is the political elitism that you find at Westminster.

    Whenever the ‘professional class’ feels threatened they close ranks in order to protect their warped idea of entitlement. Is it any wonder that people such as Greer, Boyd, Haggerty et al always seem to find a comfy public platform from which to spout their disapproval of the great unwashed?

    Your headline alludes to one of the social markers that elite factions hypocritically use as a way to discriminate against any discourse that uses colourful/colloquial, down-to-earth street language (usually, in Scottish terms, humourously). Polite, middle-class discourse is the name of the game in political circles. Anyone using the F word or deploying any kind of cruel humour, such as the Rev Stu does, is to be treated as some kind of ‘untouchable’. And by association, those of us who follow and interact with sites such as Indyref2 or Wings, are deemed equally ‘untouchable’.

    Because these ‘right-on’ commentators tend to be loquacious and ‘intellectual’ and posses a public perform to vent their spleens, does not mean they speak for the people, as such.

    The model of Westminster elitism must not be repeated at Holyrood.

    1. Dianne Smart

      Oops sorry hear hear old chap

  11. Alison Matthew

    Having been told this week by certain supporters of Greer and Haggerty that I as a Woman should not be in any way engaging with Wings or “man with a blog” Peter A Bell, I am ready to get a bit sweary myself.
    I have voted Green in the past and probably will again once we are Independent. At that point hopefully the Greens will be about policy and not point scoring

  12. Geacher

    The Yes movement is imploding Mr Bell, and Ross Greer and his ilk are correct, and you are wrong…. the more intelligent of indy supporters have had enough of the vile underbelly of separatism as portrayed by the fake Rev Stuart Campbell and his copyist wannabes…of which you are one of its dwindling numbers.
    Enjoy your gravy train fella, because very soon it will hit the buffers, and off you will fall. And not before time.

    1. Robert Graham

      Separatism – oops gave the game away with that well known phrase, now go back to yer natural home the scotsman .

    2. Ottomanboi

      If anything is ‘imploding’ right now it appears to be the British state. Confidence in it and its leadership has hit an all time low. Holidays abroad, that tanking Β£, is giving the Brits a nasty taste of the bleak future outside the EU. A country with critical leadership/management issues, in thrall to shady casino capitalists and high on Niall Ferguson’s ‘exceptionalist’ take on British history does not suggest a rosy destiny for Ukania.

  13. ronald alexander mcdonald

    He seems like a daft wee laddie who craves attention. We should start a whip round and buy him some sweeties and a Bambi video.

  14. Ottomanboi

    The ‘National Movement’ ought to be the dedicated vehicle for national sovereignty and independence and any means to achieve that end is legitimate, be it acceptable to the current political establishment and its worldview or not. This is not a ‘tea at the vicarage’ scenario.
    I do not believe that headline grabbing, potentially divisive and possibly ephemeral notions in ‘social engineering’ straight from the Guardian newspaper should be part of it either. A view that the many would consider ‘reactionary’, but I care not.
    The CyberBrit and MediaBrit output that regularly passes for comment on Scotland and the Scots is loaded with enough ‘bile’ to digest mr Greer, his entire party and the Burj Khalifah. Thankfully we have developed thick skins. It does no damage. We fight on.

  15. Hugh Wallace

    I am probably Scotland’s most natural Green supporter due to the general view I have of the way the world should work. But I’ve never voted Green, never mind joined the party, and doubt I ever will as I have no time for the likes of Greer & Harvie. I don’t trust them in the slightest or their brand of ‘right on’ politics that ignores the needs of far too many people in our country. I especially don’t trust politicians who appear to be in it more for themselves than for the cause they supposedly work for. I mean, with a Tory you know what you are getting; no hypocrisy there. But for so many on the radical left their actions rarely seem to match their supposed ideals.

    1. Peter A Bell Post author

      Your cynicism is understandable, Hugh. I too harbour serious doubts about the Scottish Greens. Harvie in particular seems overly fond of British-style party politicking. All the same, they are a Scottish party. Which has to make them a better option than even the reliably hypocritical Tories. πŸ˜‰

      1. Hugh Wallace

        What other choice do we have? RISE? Ha!

        I view the Greens with suspicion after observing the Lib Dems. I once thought they were the reasonable face of UK politics until they got into power, both in Holyrood & in Westminster. And then what did we get? Their ideals didn’t survive one second in the face of being offered power.

        I have every suspicion that the Greens would behave in much the same way should they ever get into political power. Unlike the SNP who have pretty much done what they said they’d do – for how many parliament’s now? – while being politically pragmatic when they need to be.

  16. jimmock

    I too have learnt over the years not to trust the liberals or the greens both of whom I and my partner have voted for in the past but have now learned to distrust. The only way forward for Scotland is the SNP. After independence we can vote for whoever we want to run our country.

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